@lonesome_sparrow said:

Why is it that the consensus seems to be that Phish has to stretch everything out ad infinitum in order to have successful jams?

I first saw Phish in the early nineties and I continued to see them regulalry through Cypress. In addition, I have listened to a great many of the shows they have played over the last two and a half years and I have seen them twice in the last nine months. With that in mind it is hard to fathom some of the comments I see posted here. Phish is clearly a much tighter band now than they were ten to twelve years ago. The all around musicianship and interplay is simply astounding, even on off nights.

The notion that songs need to be stretched out for twenty and even thirty to forty minutes to be successful is simply absurd. I was there when they stretched Runaway Jim out for 50 plus minutes in Worcester and it was amazing but one of the things that made it amazing was the fact that it was so rare.

Personally I find that Phish is doing much more in less time than they ever did in the nineties. There were plenty of times I saw them where Trey and Fish would be playing tag and Page and particularly Mike would not seem to be privy to where they were trying to go. It often felt like parts of the extended jams were simply them all trying to get on the same page with each other. Clearly that still happens occasionally but from what I am hearing it is much more of a rarity.

I appreciate the fact that we all have opinions and I understand that many of you have seen Phish far more often than I have. Nevertheless I am somewhat taken aback by the unrelenting emphasis that is always being placed on the length of time that they play a particular song. As a musician I would much rather see the emphasis being placed on the quality of the musicianship (which is unparrelelled in this genre of music).

Am I the only one who appreciates these arrangements and compositions for the genius they embody? I mean its fun when they stretch things out but longer improvisation doesn't necessarily equal better improvisation. I have to tell you that I have experienced plenty of extended jams that go nowhere, fast or slow, and as a musician I am at least as interested in the manner in which they improvise during the lyrical structure of a song. I mean its nice to get spacey every once in a while but no two versions of these songs are exactly alike - nor should they be - and who are we to expect that they will jam things out for a similar length of time every time or in the way that we think that they ought to? Seriously folks its them up there playing the music. What if they've played enough 30 to 40 minute Tweezers to know that they don't want to go their all the time? That it gets dry or unfulfilling... I'm not saying it does, but again they're making the music so don't they get a say in any of this?

I feel the same way about the comments directed at the freequency at which some songs are being played, such as Possum. Clearly they enjoy playing that song. If you don't want to hear it so be it. But I want to hear them play the songs that they enjoy playing because I know from first hand experience that music tends to sound better when those playing it are actually enjoying themselves. And that for me is the real kicker. I have watched all the recent webcasts and I got to see them up close and personal at Outside lands and what I see are four guys who are having a blast and producing an ever evolving work of art in the process.

Personally I have been lucky enough to see some really amazing shows in the course of the almost twenty years that I have been seeing and listening to this band. I agree that they do not seem to be probing and searching the way they were in the nineties but I take that with a grain of salt as something that should be expected. This is a much tighter and much more mature band. With that said I think it is amazing that they continue to find ways to make things fresh and to try new tracks with their improvisation in the way that they do. It is hard to conceive of a rock oriented band in the history of music that can hold a candle to the flame that is Phish and just once I would like to click on this website and not be greeted by inane whining about the length of time they did or did not jam out a particular song or how freequently they've played chalkdust or possum or crosseyed and painless or how Trey is forcing Tweezer into Julius or Caspian instead of letting the jam develop.

I mean really if you want to do it differently by all means get up there and give it a go yourself. Otherwise why not focus on soemthing constructive???

Great Post.........Quit searching for something that isn't there people. The early nineties setlists were filled with a ton of songs, and the last thing people were saying was "gosh I wish they jammed out these songs more, wtf?" 97-98 they reached a totally different point and could play 4-5 songs in the second set, all stretched out, and that was where they where at the time and that shit was fucking awesome. There is a review in "The Phish Companion" where the guy goes to a 98 show all excited, and is so disappointed that its no longer the band he grew to love in the early nineties. Well again this isn't the same fucking band that it was in the late nineties.

I agree that from my listening of this leg (from my couch, which no matter what anyone says can't really give a true review) rock and roll> meatstick> boogie from gorge, and second set from chi night one, are the best imo. Waves soundcheck is fucking ridik. Storage jam ridik as well. But these are highlights and cannot be the norm all show every show. Like every tour there are the highlights from the general quality of the tour. This tour's highlights are sick, inspired, and fresh. But the general quality of the rest is super tight, well played, and energetic. Go back to any tour and re-listen to it in entirety and tell me that every show was the fire, and that every one was completely original.....bullshit.

And then its either "playing the same shit over and over again" or "fuck these new songs suck let me hear that old shit"....cant have it all.

Its like the memories of place we have from our childhood that over time have been raised to much higher places than the reality that they were. You then go back years later and it just doesn't add up. The difference with Phish is that not only are they not the same as back then, but they have become something new and different. So what I am saying is not only is your idealistic memory of Phish not going to be reconfirmed in reality, it isn't even possible because this band is not static. Surrender to the flow, jump back on the train (or not), and if your on your on. If your not your not...

First night in Denver I want:

Possum> DWD> Tweezer> Ghost> 2001> Caspian> Theme> Carini> Bowie> Stash> C&P> TTE> Possum> Meatstick> SugarShack> Reba> Light> Bathtub Gin> Possum

I want just one set with no song over 7 minutes.

Encore: Joy> Summer of 89> Show of life

See yall there!

But seriously: Thanks Phish......Ya'll are by far the Best....