@smoothatonalsnd said:

@solargarlic78 said:

Well, if that Tweezer starts playing the F note then yes I would call that a modulation (from the scale of Gmajor to Cmajor). My only point is it's much more jarring when you modulate from key/scale to another - like in the Hood versions that go from Dmajor to Dmixo - that C note really hits ya. But my view is that Phish's most common style is to migrate from chord to chord, mode to mode. For example, many, many Ghosts go from A Dorian to D mixo - but the scale/key remains the notes of Gmajor - it's just the mode and tonal center has shifted. That shift sounds really cool (minor to major) but it's less jarring because the key/scale hasn't changed.

Yes, but what's significantly different here is what Mike and Page are doing. Trey might just be reorienting the tonic but playing the same pitch collection. Mike, however, is making purposeful movements toward the new tonic using typically tonicizing bass motions: most commonly ^4-^1 but also often ^b7-^1. So when that Ghost jam goes from A dorian to D mixolydian, Mike starts playing a lot of G to D or C to D motion. Page, equally, will often play a lot of IV-I chordal gestures.

It's much more significant, however, when the band modulates to a key that's similar but not the exact same pitch collection. One of my favorite examples of this is the Hampton Tweezer 10/20/13. The jam begins in A (as all Tweezer jams do) and gradually goes through A minor with traces of A dorian (which for all intents and purposes sound the same as A minor). But then during the spacey section, Mike initiates a move to E minor. And it feels like a seismic shift.

Now, E minor is v of A minor (the minor dominant, if you will). But, E minor is also the same pitch collection as A dorian, with only 1 sharp (F#). And it's not even the F# that gets played a lot in the early stages of that jam when they switch, it's the G to E motion that really solidifies E minor.

So here, even though the mode has shifted and the band is playing essentially the same pitch collection, there are huge differences in sound and affect. I think one of the most crucial things to remember when we talk about modulation is that almost always, when Phish modulates, they also change the overall affect/mood/feel/whatever you want to call it of the music. They respond to harmonic changes with corresponding changes in style, rhythm, timbre, and feel, and that's what really causes us to "feel" the jam changing. Often it's as simple as Page switching keyboards from piano to Rhodes, Trey adding or subtracting an effects pedal or moving from noodling solo to repetitive groove-based jamming, or as I mentioned in my earlier post, Fishman switching the beat ever so slightly.

Yes, absolutely. When they switch chords/modes the feel (and often instruments) shift dramatically. In my Ghost example, you couldn't get a more different feel than the A Dorian dark funk to the bliss D mixolydian.

For what it's worth, most Tweezer jams start in A dorian. Almost all Phish's minor jams are in Dorian - Sand, Ghost, Bowie, Antelope, I could go on (one major exception is Stash). They LOVE Dorian. So, yes, going to Emin from A dorian is the same pitch collection, except now, they are in a E NATURAL minor pitch collection, or Aeolian (without the #6 of Dorian). And, I agree that is going to feel dramatically different.